Religion VS Science
This topic has been argued and debated for untold centuries. Hell, I suspect wars were fought over the topic.
Most people that are belivers in religion may have went to sunday school of some sort, maybe a church sponsored school, taught at home or whatever. Most have not studied the history of the bible or religion in general. But I have and I still believe. It comes down to a matter of faith, and thats why it's called faith. The bible has been altered over history as has religion, many times. But in the end there is no proof there is no god, just as surely as believers can not prove there is. Just as surely as there are no winners arguing about the topic.
I believe in science, I study it, think about it, and am awed by it. Just as I believe that not all scientific dicoveries have been good for us. If not for science we would still be plowing fields with wood, stone and bone tools. Our lives would be shorter, and damned sure not as good as now.
I choose to view many things as getting a peek at the intracacies that god has created, not just what science has found. Just because science has discovered something, does that mean god hasn't created it?
I think we as humans tend to have an either or thought process sometimes. Think back to when we lived in caves and fought our neighbors for food, land and power. Do you think just reasoning said it was a bad thing? What about cannibals, human sacrifices and all that? Who said war was a bad thing, killing others and enslaving people? I think the good things religion has given us has certainly has added to our growth as humans if we can call it that, or we would still be eating each other.
If for no other reason faith has given us rules for life and living, just as we have other laws, and they are there because if left to our own devices we would do what we want when we wanted to. Now we call it anti-social behavior, even criminal behavior. Why, because someone at some time or groups made rules, and punishment for breaking them, for the good of the whole.
Is there room for both science and religion? Yes! It's kind of like a system of checks and balances, or maybe we would begin to have four sets of eyes, not two, or just one big eye!
Most people that are belivers in religion may have went to sunday school of some sort, maybe a church sponsored school, taught at home or whatever. Most have not studied the history of the bible or religion in general. But I have and I still believe. It comes down to a matter of faith, and thats why it's called faith. The bible has been altered over history as has religion, many times. But in the end there is no proof there is no god, just as surely as believers can not prove there is. Just as surely as there are no winners arguing about the topic.
I believe in science, I study it, think about it, and am awed by it. Just as I believe that not all scientific dicoveries have been good for us. If not for science we would still be plowing fields with wood, stone and bone tools. Our lives would be shorter, and damned sure not as good as now.
I choose to view many things as getting a peek at the intracacies that god has created, not just what science has found. Just because science has discovered something, does that mean god hasn't created it?
I think we as humans tend to have an either or thought process sometimes. Think back to when we lived in caves and fought our neighbors for food, land and power. Do you think just reasoning said it was a bad thing? What about cannibals, human sacrifices and all that? Who said war was a bad thing, killing others and enslaving people? I think the good things religion has given us has certainly has added to our growth as humans if we can call it that, or we would still be eating each other.
If for no other reason faith has given us rules for life and living, just as we have other laws, and they are there because if left to our own devices we would do what we want when we wanted to. Now we call it anti-social behavior, even criminal behavior. Why, because someone at some time or groups made rules, and punishment for breaking them, for the good of the whole.
Is there room for both science and religion? Yes! It's kind of like a system of checks and balances, or maybe we would begin to have four sets of eyes, not two, or just one big eye!
posted by Reflections at 8:27 AM
1 Comments:
Hi there. I followed your link from Morning Martini. I'm not out to convert anyone to atheism, but I do have a few thoughts on what you've said here –- it’s a fascinating topic.
As you said, there is no proof that there is no god. There is also no proof that there is no Abominable Snowman, Bigfoot, UFO abductions, etc. Plenty of people believe in these things without hard evidence; I suppose you could say they have faith. My point is that the absence of proof for or against the existence of gods does not make the choices logically equivalent. Not if our basis for making choices is reason, which I would argue it should be – more on that in a moment. But first, I’d like to address the implications of some of the statements you made:
"Think back to when we lived in caves and fought our neighbors for food, land and power. Do you think just reasoning said it was a bad thing?"
Well, reasoning would suggest that a social order with rules to prevent anarchy and senseless violence could produce the greatest chance of survival of the tribe. But I doubt our cave-dwelling ancestors read Rousseau; in fact, we know superstitions did inform their behavior and thus helped shape the rise of civilization as we know it. However, the ancient superstitions of which we speak bear scant resemblance to modern notions of gods. So I’m unsure how they are supposed to support your contention that god(s) exist.
"What about cannibals, human sacrifices and all that? Who said war was a bad thing, killing others and enslaving people? I think the good things religion has given us has certainly has added to our growth as humans if we can call it that, or we would still be eating each other."
But cannibalism and human sacrifice were usually motivated by religion, and violence and hatred from the Inquisition up to and including yesterday’s bombing of Indian passenger trains result from sectarian hatreds. Excerpts of the New Testament were used to justify slavery. For all these reasons, the jury is still very much out on whether religion has been a blessing or a curse on the whole. Personally, I see a lot of evidence that it is the latter.
"If for no other reason faith has given us rules for life and living, just as we have other laws, and they are there because if left to our own devices we would do what we want when we wanted to."
This sounds like a common canard put forth by the faithful – that morality doesn’t exist independently of gods. It is also easily disproved. If religion formed the bedrock of morality, one could reasonably expect the most religious nations to be the most virtuous. But one look at devout Iran and pious Saudi Arabia should quickly dispel that notion. It’s also worth noting that industrialized Western nations such as Sweden, Denmark, Holland, etc., have much lower crime rates than the US and tend to be much more secular. I don’t think this proves that religion causes crime, but it does appear to suggest that "faith" is a lousy tool for imparting morality.
"Is there room for both science and religion? Yes! It's kind of like a system of checks and balances…"
My take on it is that the interaction of science and religion –- as implied by a system of checks and balances –- degrades both. I don’t doubt that faith has enriched the lives of billions and provides comfort in the face of tragedy, etc. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place. But when it intersects with science, the results are invariably disastrous, prominent examples being the arrest of Galileo by the Catholic Church and the willful ignorance of millions of Americans because they believe evolution contradicts the bible. Religion and science may not be mutually exclusive, but they are best kept separate.
Whew, sorry to be so long-winded, and thanks for reading. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if you care to respond.
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